Ambition is the watchword for The Marketing Society in 2026: “Ambition for our businesses, our careers and our country.”

In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we welcome Sophie Devonshire, CEO of The Marketing Society, for a conversation not to be missed by anyone working in marketing who has ambitions for a great year in 2026.

We discuss the growing role of CMOs, why leading marketing teams is more like rugby than football, and why we all need to make more time for learning.

Sophie also shares her views on why personal ambition isn’t about “killing yourself at work”, but should focus on how it fits in with the rest of your life goals.

Sophie spent years working in marketing roles at Procter & Gamble, Coca-Cola, and agency side, before becoming a CEO and published author.

Reading list:

“Superfast, Lead at Speed” by Sophie Devonshire https://www.amazon.co.uk/Superfast-Lead-speed-Sophie-Devonshire/dp/1473661862

“Drive” by Dan Pink https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drive-Daniel-H-Pink/dp/184767769X

“It’s Not How Good You Are, It’s How Good You Want to Be” by Paul Arden https://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Not-How-Good-Want/dp/0714843377 “The Whole Marketer” by Abby Dixon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whole-Marketer-successful-fulfilled-marketer/dp/1911671057

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:01) Defining Ambition for 2026

(04:13) Global Perspectives on Ambition

(09:57) Building Ambitious Foundations

(14:20) The Role of Technology and Human Connection

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This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge.

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Episode transcript:

Sophie: Marketing has always been about business and business growth, and the role of great leadership, great marketing should not be underestimated, but we need to talk about it and we need to make time to market marketing and bring everybody together with those stories to feel good about it.

Adam: Happy New Year Laura!

Laura: How is the January slog treating you?

Adam: I feel great, to be honest. I had a very relaxing break. Obviously there was a bit of childcare involved, which was slightly tiring, but no, I’m very good. How are you?

Laura: I feel like we’re on day 29 of January already, which is not an amazing sign, but definitely uplifted about the conversation we’re gonna have now.

Adam: Absolutely. I couldn’t be more happy to welcome Sophie Devonshire here today. Sophie and I used to work together at a previous agency, but she’s now CEO of the Marketing Society and she’s gonna talk to us all about her big word for the year.

Laura: Excellent. Let’s get stuck in.

So Sophie, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s great to kick off 2026 thinking about the year ahead, you’ve got a watch word at the Marketing Society, which is all about ambition. Can you tell us a little bit about how you’re defining that this year?

Sophie: We’ve chosen the word ambition because we know that great businesses are always driven by good leaders doing good things, but they do need to have purpose and drive and to work collectively inside their organisation and with others to achieve great things.

So we’ve chosen the word ambition to think about ambition for our businesses, for our careers. So everybody who’s part of the Marketing Society is an ambitious person. They want to do well. Our businesses, our careers, our country. There’s a very interesting conversation to be had, particularly in the UK where we’re headquartered about the role of growth and flourishing and business in society and really just the future of growth and work.

Now, I’m definitely not talking about the 1980s stereotype of some kind of ambitious business person who is rapacious and negative. What we are really interested in is seeing how the leaders in our community are incredibly impacting both the whole of their culture and their organisation, the brands and society. It’s a broader, more holistic ambition.

And, there’s a great, great quote from Michelangelo that our President Dame Carolyn McCall particularly loves, which is very simple, which is the greatest risk is not that we aim too high and fail, it’s that we aim too low and reach it. So as we move into 2026, it’s about resetting what is our individual ambition and what’s our ambition as an industry that really can be achieved and believing that it is possible.

Laura: It’s interesting, isn’t it? Is that balance between sort of optimism and pragmatism as well. Because as you say, I think when you think of an eighties type ambition, it’s often sort of, we are the greatest at whatever. And I think for better or worse, we are much more conscious of the constraints that we’re operating in. But I think what you are saying is still having a hopefulness, still having a sort of sense of verve for what we can achieve is, is really critical for us to drive growth.

Sophie: And there’s no denying that things will continue to be challenging, absolutely. Business itself is not easy. Business itself is transforming right now, but that in its very nature gives us huge opportunities. So the optimism comes from seeing examples of what people can do even in the toughest times. I mean, we’ve talked before about COVID and actually what incredible things still happened with huge constraints.

Marketers tend to be creative. They understand what customers need. Perhaps what we need a little bit more though as we move into 2026, is some confidence, is some optimism, is some pride in what we can do, what business can achieve the role it plays in society and the world, and not being ashamed of that and having an ambition to make sure more people can see that and believe what’s possible.

Adam: What do you think is getting in the way? What are the barriers here that are causing this, or causing you to feel like ambition should be put on the table as something to push forward next year?

Sophie: So two things. One is my role’s a global role. So it is always very interesting to see the perspectives of what’s happening in the Middle East and you know, in the US and other places where perhaps it’s a little bit more acceptable to be confident and to be ambitious. So there’s a societal question there as well. So as a fellow of the Marketing Society, Rory Sutherland put it at our UAE conference; marketers have never been very great at marketing marketing.

So there’s a confidence piece there, an ambition piece there about marketers themselves. So the more we can show the stories of what’s possible and what’s achievable, it’s like the inclusion question. You need to see it to be it and believe it.

And we’re showcasing a few more of those because I think we’ve had a few years of people not celebrating enough what great marketing can do and what great marketers can achieve. So that’s one of the blockers. And you know, the very nature of, we’ve had a tough five years, all of us, we’ve, you know, battled things through. Everybody’s a little exhausted still. So there is definitely the need to double down and see what’s there.

If you think about drive. So Dan Pink talks a lot about it and, and he talks about autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Drive is the other side of ambition. It’s the heart of it all. And what drives you is a sense that you can achieve and that you have the power to do it.

And there’s something in making sure we show marketers and we show business leaders what is possible over and over again so that they can believe that that ambition and the drive will get them somewhere.

Laura: I think you raised a really interesting point, Sophie, about Britishness and actually how Britain perceives itself and obviously the Marketing Society is a global one.

I have a sort of observation, I guess, which might be the sample of one about Britishness, which is, I think we always talk about being slightly uncomfortable with sharing our ambition, but I wonder if there’s also a slight amount of complacency.

Sophie: I think it’s one of the most useful things about building a global perspective, which does not necessarily mean traveling, but certainly reading, thinking, looking at connecting with people globally. I love the fact our community is so global and we can exchange the ideas.

I’ve lived and worked overseas a lot, and I spend quite a lot of time thinking about brand Britain now. Side note, I am also part of Anthropy, which is a gathering of leaders, which takes place every year in the Eden Project. Amazing entrepreneur, Sir Tim Smit, who founded that. And Anthropy is a movement to rebuild a better Britain. And it looks at how do we build a United Kingdom. Really interesting.

And as part of that, last year we talked a lot about brand Britain and what we could do. I definitely think there is complacency and I think it’s really important to understand what’s happening, seeing what’s happening in our Singapore and Hong Kong hubs, we can learn so much about their attitude to tech and the opportunities there.

And the best leaders are magpies and they are searching and reapplying. They’re looking, they’re finding out what’s happening. So taking ideas from elsewhere and absolutely the context if we are human understanding experts, as we should be as marketers and insight experts. We should be looking at what makes the experience of working in Tallinn different to the experience of working in Singapore and understanding what that means, and we can import that to Britain.

On the other hand, I do think that we have been so reluctant to be jingoistic and nervous about being confident we’ve actually gone quite far the other way.

Laura: Yes.

Sophie: So I think the creative industries in Britain are incredible. I think the stories of businesses and entrepreneurs that are here are not told enough, and so I do think there’s a lot we can do to celebrate what makes Britain great. And that is also something that marketeers can do and the businesses that we have, the ability to tell the story in a way, which is true, but in a way which shows what’s possible. There’s definitely an ambition there as well.

Adam: So interesting to hear what you’re saying here about learning from different cultures, different markets.

Within the UK or maybe even within the marketing world, where do you think the biggest inspiration might be for learning from? Is it from specific industries that are doing things well at the moment or to different types of competitor? Where do you think like in the internal kind of world, the best place to learn is?

Sophie: Well, I think rather than finding one place, I think there’s the habit and discipline and focus on that constant curiosity for people. That’s actually surprisingly hard. It’s a super fast, super pressured world for people. Making time to learn needs to be a priority, I would say, rather than thinking about where can we learn, it’s how can we learn and micro-learning small amounts every single day.

One of the CEOs I interviewed for my book, Superfast: Lead At Speed, Liv Garfield literally had in her diary once a month to have dinner with another CEO from a FTSE 100 or another CEO once every single month to make sure she made time to learn.

So I think there’s just the habit point and that’s where you end up with topping up your growth when it comes to learning and insight.

Adam: So it sounds like learning is absolutely on the list of what we need to be doing. I actually have some questions about the other practical things that I guess marketing leaders can be doing to kind of put in place the foundations for a more ambitious 2026. Where else would you be kind of focusing on?

Sophie: I think one of the huge challenges for all marketing leaders is the fact that they need to build today and tomorrow at the same time, they are the ultimate time lords. So making sure you’re managing the narrative, so that everybody understands that because, I think it was an ex CMO of Unilever used to talk about, you know,  everyone approaches marketing with an open mouth, you know, because everybody has a point of view on it. Or controlling the narrative is really, really important.

And, we’ve just recorded a conversation recently, hosted by Dame Carolyn McCall, our new president. Well, we brought together seven business leaders to talk about how can we better showcase the power of marketing to a wider world. And, Greg Jackson, who is the founder of Octopus Energy, a marketer turned CEO, talked about one of the things they’ve done there, but as being analogist to what happens in marketing. He said, it’s not a football game, it’s a rugby game. Persuasion game. You see it’s a rugby game. In marketing, you need to, like with rugby, you need to bring everybody with you at the same time. It’s just not one person. So

Laura: I didn’t understand the analogy. I’m very clueless. Do explain.

Adam: I didn’t teach that. I’m gonna be honest I love it. I absolutely love it.

Sophie: But you get it right? It’s different to football.

Adam: Yeah. We have a running theme of like, football, various sporty analogies on here, so I’m pleased this, that this came up,

Sophie: It is such a different game, rugby to, to football it really is. And marketing. So what do they need to do to build the ambition? They need to take everybody with them so much. It’s why it’s so important to have the right person in those marketing roles, because what they do externally is critical. But internally, building the understanding of the long-term game, talking about the foundations, getting everybody to believe it.

Not just because they need to believe it so they don’t interfere and cut budgets, but also because actually employees end up being your advocates and make a huge difference. So the point is, if you are building long-term ambitious foundations, it’s got to start inside the business. Everybody understanding it. Having a clear narrative of what’s happening today and the fact that things take time and that things need to be tested and that actually fundamentally, you cannot guarantee what’s gonna happen moving forward. So there’s more ambiguity. All the other disciplines in business can just look at the data and look to the past.

Marketing is the only one that owns the future, which makes it vulnerable, but also makes it powerful.

Adam: One of the conversations we’ve been having with a few people on the podcast, different seniority levels, different functional roles, is this idea of not just understanding the future, but creating it.

So lots of businesses are very good at looking into the future and understanding marketers are very good at understanding where consumers might be going, what the trends are. But translating it into things that the business does differently and how they’re gonna capture that value, I think is where the challenge is.

Where have you seen it done well? And have you seen any good principles for how to do this? Because I think some of this is at the heart of being ambitious, isn’t, it’s spotting the opportunity and and going for it.

Sophie: Well, we talk about marketers being change makers. Right. So we have always known how to change minds, how to change behaviours, and that means we can change the trajectory of a company and lead to growth and make that happen.

Marketing’s always been about business and fundamentally around it. But that does involve not just strategy, but action. And what we see and what everybody is really experimenting with is that mix of core and explore. So optimising what’s there each time and adopting all the agility mindset of testing things with customers because it’s changing so fast, learning very fast, adapting and iterating what you are, what you are doing.

But also always making sure there is room for exploration and innovation. So leading innovation as part of what you control as a marketer is really, really important to make sure there is room and space to test what could be a future revenue stream to see what’s out there.

It only works if you can find a way to get some pace into it as well.

Adam: And communicate it to your point earlier. You know, there’s a world that’s happening now and there’s the world and the future. The twin narratives.

Sophie: Yes.

Adam: And you’ve got to be letting people know what’s coming and while they’re doing that whilst trying to, you know, keep everything moving for that quarter.

Sophie: The two- pace race. Yeah.

But what we’re also seeing is, marketers taking on different roles. So the Marketing Leader of the Year award this year went to Mark Given from Sainsbury’s. His role now includes marketing, data and tech and we are seeing a lot of marketing leaders leaning into helping the business understand what transformation really means. I think probably a couple of years ago that was being owned very much by the CTO and the CIO and the tech side of the business, but joining up to make sure things are fundamentally customer centric, that the business is organised around customer needs.

Joining that up with what’s happening in technology. That’s where the power of the future is going to be. Making sure that we can lean on it. We don’t need to know everything, but we do need to understand how do we take all the exciting things that are happening from a tech and tools point of view to make them work for the business and make them work for the customer therefore.

Laura: I think that’s the fundamental shift that a lot of us are having to go our heads around. Is yes, if we understand needs, we can attract consumers, but consumers need to be able to see us.

Sophie: Yes.

Laura: And increasingly that is not something we can just assume is the case. You know, people working with the bots, working with the algorithms, actually making sure that that presence is felt. We’re not just having a conversation with ourselves and the various echo chambers of brand as well as, you know, Facebook.

Sophie: What’s the customer seeing? How do we get it out there? It is absolutely right. And of course, you know we have to see that as decisions are being made and our future customer is a bot, but we still have to see that in a really complicated world, the brand is gonna be more important than ever.

Laura: Yes. 

Sophie: It really is. When we talk about the evolution from SEO to a AEO or GEO or whatever we’re gonna call it, you know, finding things through AI, making sure that the brand is the most valuable part of the business. Reminding everybody in the business that future earnings will come from a strong brand. Keeping that message going for people and just making it easy for people to find you in a crazy world.

But it’s, yeah, it’s definitely hard because you’ve got to battle with lots of opinions internally. There is a huge amount of ambiguity going on. I remember Google used to have, one of the hiring criteria was comfort with ambiguity.

I think that’s the same for marketeers right now. You have to be comfortable with, you will not know the certainty. You’ve just got to have enough data, enough instinct enough and be able to test and learn some of these things.

Laura: But I think to your point as well, it’s also about having faith in what you stand for as a brand.

I have seen sometimes quite a lot of deference to people that are very, very good at tech, almost at the expense of people that really get what the brand is about. And I think there is a flip point in this drive towards technology, which is perhaps almost like a consumer loss of sensation. You know, when everything feels like so seamless and so on demand, and there doesn’t appear to be like much differentiation between brands, it doesn’t actually feel great for people.

You know, a brand sort of holds emotional associations, and as you said, that is its power. You know, when it has a trust, when it has a sort of evocation of meaning. That is when it is powerful. So I think it’s gonna be as much a question of taking those timeless values of really understanding what your human story is and why you appeal as it is sort of then taking all of these things we’re testing and learning and, and building that into the future.

Sophie: It’s so interesting and that is definitely the opportunity to use AI to be more human. Both as individuals, and as an organisation. I do think that therefore means if we go back to the question of what should we be doing as individuals and how do we set ourselves up, we’ve got to work on those two elements.

So, I’ve got an image in my mind of a robot hand and a human hand. Really great leaders do definitely understand that tech is the ultimate accelerator. We’ve got to be all over the understanding where the potential is, what it means to the business. Making a lot of time to learn about everything that’s out there and the potential of the tech.

And at the same time working every single day and in every single way on our human understanding, our human skills. How are we communicating internally? Because without the influence internally, you can’t have the impact you need. How do we understand what’s going on with customers and what really makes us human because the emotional impact of a great story well told or brought to life of really connecting with the most human side of it all is still ultimately the massive power we have.

Adam: And only gonna become more important. I’m a big believer in this. I think marketing LinkedIn has taken a pivot back to like brand centric thinking now. Your brand is your moat in a world where everything’s been flattened and you can get anything from anyone anywhere. But what makes you stand out? So I’m a big believer that this pendulum is about to swing back the other way,

Sophie: My ambition and my call to everybody listening is, we need to own our impact when it comes to that. Marketers do need to take this moment and point out why this is important for business.

Adam: Yes,

Sophie: Marketing has always been about business and business growth, and the role of great leadership, great marketing should not be underestimated. But we need to talk about it and we need to make time to market marketing and bring everybody together with those stories to feel good about it.

Adam: Brilliant. Look, I think you made a great case for ambition. I’m totally bought in. Just thinking about our listeners now, so in 2026, if someone wants to set more ambition and tension for themselves, where should they start?

Sophie: I would say remind yourself, you don’t have to do it alone. There are so many people who you can link with, spend time with, who will help raise your bar. You know, there’s that whole thing about the five people you spend the most time with actually help influence what’s going on. Or that insight, if you sit next to someone on a plane who’s complete stranger and they choose a healthy food, you will be more likely to choose healthy food.

We are influenced by the people we spend time with. So building your tribe, building your community in whatever way that takes. Making sure there is time in your diary in the same way as you make time to exercise or you should make time to exercise. We all need to do more, I’m sure. Making time to learn and to connect and build up your tribe.

I do think there’s also like, things can be challenging and you are building a community there to support you for the tough times. So you can pick up the phone and go, I’m struggling with this. How can you help? Can you talk this through with me?  So if to be ambitious about yourself, bizarrely, it’s also about starting with thinking about who else can support you.  I think it’s just reminding yourself of the growth mindset and showing some examples of what other people have done. I’m constantly inspired by members of the Marketing Society, how they’ve changed and transformed their businesses and themselves. So looking at what other people can do can help.

And then just that little bit of managing your energy, not your time, is gonna be so important. So being ambitious for a life well lived as well. You know, this is why I say it’s not the 1980 stereotype of killing yourself at work to do it. You know, we are all amazing humans with impact to have in all parts of our lives. Work should be an important part of that. I think you can love your work and adapt that and focus in on building a better relationship with work, but being ambitious for your whole life and everything that’s there. And setting your goals,  in every part of the wheel of life I think goes hand in hand because the more well-rounded you are. So, Abby Dixon, who’s one of our members of the Society, wrote a book called The Whole Marketer, and the more well-rounded you are, the more insights you can bring to people because you have more of a life, the more positive you can be, the more creative you can be.

If you don’t have energy because you’re not inspired by your life or looking after yourself, you can’t be creative. You can’t put up with the whack-a-mole that business actually is. And you can’t take others with you. because ultimately the opportunity is not just to have others help you, but to help others inside your business and your customers as well. And you need the energy to succeed with that.

Laura: I love that reframing that you’re giving Sophie of not just saying it’s about like drive forward, forward, forward.

It’s like actually take time to pause and reflect, bring people with you. Really understand and be curious about what the possibilities are. It’s a great way of looking at ambition

Sophie: And this is such a good time to do it, obviously in January to reflect,  and review,  before you preview and look at your ambitions and your goals. But building in the pause and time to think is really important.

One last thing that you’ve just both sparked a thought, which is there’s a lot of conversation about personal brand visibility, which I think is also a very interesting thing for us to look at in 2026. As part of showcasing what marketing can do, there’s a bravery in individuals also putting the head above the parapet and saying, this is what I’m doing, and sharing it with other people. There’s a generosity in it. But also you feel vulnerable doing it.

But the impact it can have when you see what other people can do, can be really, really inspiring. And I think that’s something a lot of people are struggling with at the moment, actually do they feel uncomfortable with it all? But the more we can share our stories and show what’s going on, the more we can help other people as well.

Adam: So I was listening to John Evans this morning on the way here.

Sophie: Member of the Marketing Society.

Laura: A very good podcaster as well.

Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to John Evans. And he was talking to Nick Tran, who has taken over or has a partnership between Diageo and Main Street Capital or Main Street Advisors to have Ciroc and, one of the tequila’s, Lobos tequila, I think it is. And he’s kind of taken on these two global brands, he’s helping to grow them. And one of the things he said was that he believed that CMOs, marketers aren’t being ambitious enough in the sense that they’re aiming at the CMO job, they’re aiming at the C-suite. Looking at the CMO job and not looking beyond. And I was just reflecting on, I’m sat opposite an ex marketer who became a CEO.  What’s your take on where the ambition line should stop for marketers and whether thinking about the whole business?

Sophie: I love this question. So,  two thoughts. One is not all CMOs should be CEOs. Not all CMOs want to be CEOs, but more of them should be. Because I think the figure is shockingly low in terms of, I think 4% of CMOs end up being CEOs or whatever. And what you miss out on is customer focussed organisations. So we showcase a lot of examples of great CEOs who are customer led and marketing led or come from that background.

So I definitely think there is more we can do and we are doing more. We’ve been doing some work with Carolyn McCall and within the society to support our CMOs who are looking at general manager and CEO roles, but it is different. So I do think there is a piece of, let’s make sure it’s possible, it’s part of the growth mindset’s, part of ambition.

However, if you want to love your work and you want to to be fulfilled, lots of people should always just be CMOs, that suits them. So it’s about getting the fit right between all of it as well.  But this is the point about ambition. I don’t know if you, either of you have read the bestselling book by Paul Arden – It’s not how good you are, it’s how good you want to be. Fundamental principle. It’s a brilliant book.

Adam: I need to get a reading list off you.

Sophie: It’s tiny. It’s a really short, beautifully done book. It’s one of the best books ever. And Paul Arden, incredible creative. It’s very good for anyone in advertising particularly, but just generally to read it.

But the principle is very simple. It’s not how good you are, it’s how good you want to be. So, Victoria Beckham said she wanted to be more famous than Persil. That was her ambition. And she’s not the world’s best singer, sorry, Victoria, but you weren’t. But she was a very successful pop star. She went into fashion, you know, not having any experience and she’s done a great job with it.

The drive, the ambition. Defining what you want to do. So, Emma Harris, another fellow of the Marketing Society, who has another great podcast. She says, you can be whatever you want to be, but you need to work out what you want first. So going back to the career coaching, going back to the, do you want to be a CMO or CEO, deciding what you want is the first step and pausing, and then working out who can help you get there.

Because there’ll be friends and tribes and contacts to help you get there. And then your ambition should know no boundaries, no limits.

Adam: I can’t wait. I’m already gonna leave this and set up my goals for this year.

Sophie: Let’s make it a brilliant 2026

Laura: Couldn’t agree more. Thank you so much, Sophie, very inspiring stuff. Thank you.

Adam: Thank you so much for coming on.

Sophie: Thank you both. Really enjoyed it.

Adam: So Laura, I absolutely loved that interview. Considering the time of year and the plans that we’re all making about 2026, I thought that was an excellent time to have that conversation.

Laura: If nothing else, the book list is exceptional. We shall have to put that in the show notes.

Adam: She’s excellent for books and inspiration and podcasts. But my big takeout was that, you know, we are all gonna be setting our targets, our goals for the year in January. And I think what I took from that is give yourself the time to reflect through the year, and learn and kind of push yourself towards that goal. There’s no good just setting a goal without setting the plan and the framework for how you’re going to achieve it.

Laura: And I think also how much learning and ambition are interlinked. I think sometimes there’s that kind of old fashioned idea of it’s just drive, go, go, go. And actually what we were hearing was it’s a lot more holistic, but it’s also about seeing what other people are doing, stealing with pride, like sharing examples and, and that’s really the only way we’re gonna navigate this very, very complex and interesting terrain that we’re currently in.

Adam: Yeah. So refreshing to also hear that, you know, as someone that spends so much time with very senior marketers, she’s saying that not everyone has the answer and, and we’re all kind of learning as we go. So, you know, we shouldn’t feel bad if we don’t have the answer that we need.

And that actually the learning process, the growth mindset is all part of it.

Laura: Fantastic.

Adam: So a big theme of that episode was about learning. And if you’re interested in learning more, go and check out the episode with Richard Shotton all about what behavioural science can teach us in marketing.

Richard: If you are in marketing, you are in the business of behaviour change.

Now think of the core challenges. We wanna get people to pay a premium from a product. We wanna get people to buy a wider range of products. We want people to switch from a competitor brand. You know, every single question that marketers deal with is the question of behaviour change. And once you accept that, the question then becomes, well, why wouldn’t you draw in 130 years of experiments into what makes for the most effective behaviour change?